the book to do well for them. I
also—
I’m not the Saint of Bloomington. [A phrase I used on phone; he’s remembered it.] I want them to buy my next thing. So I want, I’m playing this delicate game of, “I don’t want to be an asshole, but I also don’t give myself away.” There have been two or three things they asked me, that I just thought would be bad for me to do. And I said no to those—but bring me somethin’ else that I’ll do, that’s like borderline.
Because this—you’re not a bad guy. But this stuff is real bad for me, it makes me self-conscious. The more exposure I as a person get, the more it hurts me as a writer. But I said yes to this, so that I could in good conscience say no to a couple other things that are just way more toxic. And that’s what I get out of it. And after this, I don’t think there’s gonna be much more of this.
Why do you think of it as a kind of toxic self-consciousness—
If I could get laid out of it. If one
Rolling Stone
reader …
I’m sure you’ll get letters
.
They’ll take seventy pictures, and a
Details
shot’ll come out.
You’re
a good-looking guy. We should have ’em photograph you, and then say you’re me. I’ll end up getting laid, you’ll end up …
[Courting me again]
There’s just been a whole bunch, and most of ’em have just been atrocious.
I
think. Or maybe I really look like that. That’s the nice thing. I can go to my friends around here, and I could go, “I don’t really look like that, do I?” And they’ll go, “No.” Now, whether it’s true or not …?
But the self-consciousness is helpful to you too?
It’s like everything else: It’s real good up to a certain point. But there’s this—here I am, the Dave who’s been in
Rolling Stone
. Now I’m learning how to write short stories—“Oh no: Are
these
short stories of the level of somebody who was just featured in
Rolling Stone?”
[This is what happened in the late ’80s: his panic.]
That
kind of—there’s good self-consciousness. And then there’s this toxic, paralyzing, raped-by-psychic-Bedouins self-consciousness.
Those things go away; like worries about where I am now, who I am now, whether my girlfriend last year was better for me, so was I maybe
writing
better then? Did those figures in my landscape help me orient myself better, organize my life better? It goes away
.
But this is a rather stronger and more dangerous kind of self-consciousness. But you’re right, my brain does work that way, and I, it’s in my interest to eliminate as many possible avenues of it. And you can see, I mean, I’m not a reclusive writer, I’m not saying no to this, I’m just trying to be careful about it. And my nightmare is, I’ll get to really like it. And I’ll be one of these hideous: “Hey, yet another publication party, and here’s
Dave
sticking his head into the picture.” I’d rather be dead. I’d rather be dead. I just—because I don’t want to be
seen
that way.
Why?
Because I think that’s—well, would you want to be seen that way? Say how you’d feel about it, as a springboard. So that I’ve got a context to talk about it.
Then you’re deriving your satisfaction from talking about your work, by acting like a writer, as opposed to by writing, so paradoxically you’d probably get less done
.
Yes. That’s real good. And there’s nothing more grotesque than somebody who’s going around, “I’m a writer, I’m a writer, I’m a writer.” It’s a very fine line. I don’t mind appearing in
Rolling Stone
, but I don’t want to appear in
Rolling Stone
as somebody who
wants
to be in
Rolling Stone
.
It’s the whole pomo dance, that whole kind of thing. So my worry—I don’t really have that much integrity. Because what I’m really worried is,
looking
like the sort of person who would appear at these parties. Now, the difference between that, and sort of
being
the person who doesn’t want them is unclear to me.
But I
do
know that to the
also—
I’m not the Saint of Bloomington. [A phrase I used on phone; he’s remembered it.] I want them to buy my next thing. So I want, I’m playing this delicate game of, “I don’t want to be an asshole, but I also don’t give myself away.” There have been two or three things they asked me, that I just thought would be bad for me to do. And I said no to those—but bring me somethin’ else that I’ll do, that’s like borderline.
Because this—you’re not a bad guy. But this stuff is real bad for me, it makes me self-conscious. The more exposure I as a person get, the more it hurts me as a writer. But I said yes to this, so that I could in good conscience say no to a couple other things that are just way more toxic. And that’s what I get out of it. And after this, I don’t think there’s gonna be much more of this.
Why do you think of it as a kind of toxic self-consciousness—
If I could get laid out of it. If one
Rolling Stone
reader …
I’m sure you’ll get letters
.
They’ll take seventy pictures, and a
Details
shot’ll come out.
You’re
a good-looking guy. We should have ’em photograph you, and then say you’re me. I’ll end up getting laid, you’ll end up …
[Courting me again]
There’s just been a whole bunch, and most of ’em have just been atrocious.
I
think. Or maybe I really look like that. That’s the nice thing. I can go to my friends around here, and I could go, “I don’t really look like that, do I?” And they’ll go, “No.” Now, whether it’s true or not …?
But the self-consciousness is helpful to you too?
It’s like everything else: It’s real good up to a certain point. But there’s this—here I am, the Dave who’s been in
Rolling Stone
. Now I’m learning how to write short stories—“Oh no: Are
these
short stories of the level of somebody who was just featured in
Rolling Stone?”
[This is what happened in the late ’80s: his panic.]
That
kind of—there’s good self-consciousness. And then there’s this toxic, paralyzing, raped-by-psychic-Bedouins self-consciousness.
Those things go away; like worries about where I am now, who I am now, whether my girlfriend last year was better for me, so was I maybe
writing
better then? Did those figures in my landscape help me orient myself better, organize my life better? It goes away
.
But this is a rather stronger and more dangerous kind of self-consciousness. But you’re right, my brain does work that way, and I, it’s in my interest to eliminate as many possible avenues of it. And you can see, I mean, I’m not a reclusive writer, I’m not saying no to this, I’m just trying to be careful about it. And my nightmare is, I’ll get to really like it. And I’ll be one of these hideous: “Hey, yet another publication party, and here’s
Dave
sticking his head into the picture.” I’d rather be dead. I’d rather be dead. I just—because I don’t want to be
seen
that way.
Why?
Because I think that’s—well, would you want to be seen that way? Say how you’d feel about it, as a springboard. So that I’ve got a context to talk about it.
Then you’re deriving your satisfaction from talking about your work, by acting like a writer, as opposed to by writing, so paradoxically you’d probably get less done
.
Yes. That’s real good. And there’s nothing more grotesque than somebody who’s going around, “I’m a writer, I’m a writer, I’m a writer.” It’s a very fine line. I don’t mind appearing in
Rolling Stone
, but I don’t want to appear in
Rolling Stone
as somebody who
wants
to be in
Rolling Stone
.
It’s the whole pomo dance, that whole kind of thing. So my worry—I don’t really have that much integrity. Because what I’m really worried is,
looking
like the sort of person who would appear at these parties. Now, the difference between that, and sort of
being
the person who doesn’t want them is unclear to me.
But I
do
know that to the
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